Zermatt, Switzerland – Matterhorn Express – Part Four

Matterhorn Express

The Matterhorn Express, the last leg of our journey here, is the longest of the rides you may take with the Peak Pass. It covers the gondola ride from Zermatt via Furi, all the way up to Klein Matterhorn and the Matterhorn Glacier Paradise.

The Ride Up

The gondola ride is fairly long and one can hop-on and hop-off and several different places along the way.

Schwarzsee

This is about the third stop on the way up and is after Furi. It is just up over massif that separates the high peaks from the valley floor below. In fact, as you go up the hill on the gondola ride you cannot see the Matterhorn until you just about reach Schwarzsee.

Trockener Steg

Another stop just before Klein Matterhorn is the Trockener Steg. It lays at around eleven thousand feet in elevation, so you will feel some relief from the elevation once you arrive here on the way back down.

Klein Matterhorn

The top of the Klein Matterhorn is a cold, snowy and glacier dominated place. It has a commanding view of the Mattertal towards Zermatt and the Aosta Valley inside Italy. From here the Matterhorn looks very different, taking on the appearance of the rest of the horns, as the high peaks in this area are called.

Matterhorn Glacier Paradise

The tunnel that has been carved out into the glacier was probably once done on behalf of scientific curiosity and has now become a tourist attraction, complete with ice carvings. An interesting, if not very cold attraction. In order to thoroughly enjoy this you should be properly dressed, it is very cold.

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Conclusion

A must see trip and not for the faint of heart. If you have issues with height, be prepared, the gondola ride brings you across chasms that are quite deep and the gondolas are complete glass, so it will seem as though you are suspended in air. Here are a few videos where you can get an appreciation for what to expect.

We really enjoyed our day on the Matterhorn Express and would recommend it to anyone with plans to visit Zermatt. This concludes our visit to Zermatt, Switzerland.

Zermatt, Switzerland – Gornergrat – Part Three

Gornergrat

Another must see place in Zermatt is Gornergrat. You can reach this promontory by using the Gornergrat train, a mountain rack railway, which ascends the mountain passed Riffelalp and Riffelberg.

There are several stops besides these two along the way that one may decide to leave the train and just walk or hike. However, unlike Sunnegga and Blauherd, the terrain here is a bit more unforgiving and vertical. Also, the weather on top of the mountains can be cold and unpredictable, so bring something warm and something waterproof, especially if you are hiking.

Gornergrat Glacier

The height of the trip is the summit and the Gornergrat Glacier. Aside from this, this isn’t much to see, especially in marginal weather when the Matterhorn is obscured.

Panorama of Gorner Glacier – Gornergrat – Zermatt, Switzerland

Riffelberg

On the way down we stopped at Riffelberg, with the hopes of getting some hiking in down to Riffelalp. However, the weather was not looking very good and we were still suffering from our colds, so we decided against it.

Here are some short videos that were taken of our trip.

Restaurants

We did not eat at the restaurant on the summit, but rather waited until we were back in Zermatt. We left around ten in the morning and were already back a little after noon.

China Garden

Any one seeking good Chinese food at very reasonable prices has to visit the China Garden.

They have all the dishes which are prepared with continental ingredients and taste delicious. For those that prefer their lunches uncomplicated, here you can definitely find some vegetarian or simple to order.

And of course, after lunch the day would not be complete this week without the customary rain storm. Actually, this was just a gentle shower, later in the day we had a very severe thunderstorm. But we were inside the hotel by then and did not care. Again, the weather can be unpredictable here, so be prepared and check the forecast, they are for the most part reliable.

Tomorrow it’s on to Matterhorn Glacier, so we will be taking the Matterhorn Glacier Express.

Zermatt, Switzerland – The Murmelweg – Part Two

Part of the reason for even going to Zermatt has to be the hiking. Not only are the views breathtaking, even on a marginal day, but the air is fresh and clean and very enjoyable. And then there are the mountains, Zermatt has them and much more.

Panorama at Sunnegga – Zermatt, Switzerland

Zermatt

To get anywhere, aside from the town, will require time, energy and a lot of walking. Or, you can purchase tickets to get up the mountains. These can be purchased separately, multi-day pass or the flexi-pass. We found the multi-day pass to be perfect for our needs, since we had no intention of skipping any days (they get a small premium for the flexi-pass, not sure why). The Peak Pass that we purchased, allowed us to travel to all three experiences, the Rothorn (Sunnegga-Blauherd), Gornergrot and the Matterhorn Glacier Experience.

The Peak Pass – Tickets For Two – Zermatt, Switzerland

Sunnegga

To get to Sunnegga and Blauherd you can either employ one of the hiking trails or take the cable car up to Sunnegga. From there you can start your hike or take a gondola ride to Blauherd, which gets you closer to the Stellisee, if that is your destination. From there however, you will have to hike.

The gondola ride goes up and down over some very treacherous terrain. So we decided we would take the gondola ride up and hike back down to Sunnegga.

Sunnegga station – Zermatt, Switzerland

Blauherd – Stellisee

The Stellisee is a good fifteen minute hike from the Blauherd gondola terminal over rather even, if not slightly downward sloping terrain. It is rather easy and should afford most people no difficulties.

The Stellisee is a rather barren, pristine alpine lake nestled on the side of the Unterrothorn. Many people will usually hike up to the refuge on the other side, but since the conditions were not ideal, we decided to just take a photograph of it and start our hike back down.

Stellisee – Zermatt, Switzerland

Murmelweg

Named for the eponymous animal that has made the territory it goes through its home, the Murmelweg is a casual, if not easy hiking trail back to Sunnegga. There are a few technical areas, but nothing that most people will find impossible to pass. I would wear hiking boots though, the trail goes over rocky terrain and a good boot will help stabilize your ankles and aid your hike.

The below video is a fairly good example of what to expect.

We chose this route over the five lakes trail, which you can actually see as you hike this trail, only because we heard that route was rather boring after about the first two lakes. However, if you have the time and motivation, I would commend it, since it has more elevation changes and a bit more challenging than this trail.

Our Route – Map

The following reference map details our trail route. The route was a bit over two miles with only a few hundred feet elevation decline and took us about an hour and a half to complete, stopping frequently for photographs.

Blauherd-Stellisee-Murmelweg-Sunnegga Trail – All Trails – Zermatt, Switzerland

Restaurants

Osteria Bella Italia

Osteria Bella Italia – Zermatt, Switzerland

An Italian restaurant that is part of hotel on the Bahnhofstrasse, the Osteria Bella Italia is what my wife and I call and overpriced, corporate dining establishment serving food they want to be Italian. It’s not bad, but the preparation is what I would say a bit sub-optimal. Then there are the prices. I paid 22CHF for a small bowl of pasta with garlic and oil, totally unheard of in Italy.

Zermatt, Switzerland – A Town Of Tourists – Part One

This week we traveled by train from Turin to Zermatt, Switzerland in the hopes of enjoying the weather and the clean air. There is plenty of clean air, but the weather has remained extremely variable, with it almost always raining in the afternoons.

Zermatt train station – Zermatt, Switzerland

After we got off the EuroCity train in Visp we had to take the local train from there to Zermatt. These trains are run by the canton and are especially equipped to ascend to the 5200ft elevation we needed to ascend in order to get to our destination.

Unfortunately, our first attempt failed and the train that we were on broke down at its first stop. We had to wait approximately a half an hour before another arrived to complete our journey.

Zermatt

Zermatt is considered a town by the local government and with a constant population of around five thousands, that would seem to be about correct. However, the bulk of the people that you find here are tourists. And as one would expect, the tourist population swells during the weekends as local Swiss and others from neighboring regions come to enjoy the alpine air.

The town is divided by a river with is fed by the many glaciers that surround the town. However, the flow of this river is controlled by a dam and there are signs that warn those who want to sun themselves on the rocks along its banks, that water can be unexpectedly released and you can be swept down river. We actually witnessed the water level rise once due to the rain we had been receiving.

Old Zermatt

There are examples in the upper parts of Zermatt, of the original buildings that were used by the early residents. Some are still in use today. However, with the increased land prices, most have sold out and moved up valley to get away from the tourism gentrification.

The Tradition Julen

Our hotel is the four star The Tradition Julen hotel. It is one of the more pricier hotels in the area but the rooms are very cozy and comfortable. In fact, it is one of the few four star hotels that I have not had the displeasure of asking for something that should be already included in the room! The service is first rate and so far we are having a great stay. It is also close to the center of town, but kind of out of the way too, so you won’t get a lot of tourist walking by the hotel, which makes for a quieter stay.

Restaurants

During our week long stay here, we ate at an assortment of restaurants. The area does have its traditional food and our hotel actually houses a traditional Valais Stube which serves food like this, mainly raclette, beef fondues and other curiosities.

Stadel Restaurant

The first restaurant we stopped at that had just opened for the summer months. The service and food were good, but I have to knock them a bit for not having any sauerkraut – it is on the menu. It would have paired well with the Water Buffalo Bratwurst I had ordered and enjoyed.

Hotel Julen Restaurant

Our hotel has its own restaurant that serves cosmopolitan cuisine. Due to weather complications, we were forced to stay in and enjoy what it had to offer one evening and were not disappointed. We thought the food was very good and the prices fair.

Our initial feel for the town is good, it has excellent services and plenty of restaurants and bars. Some of the food can be pricey, but if you stick to the traditional German fare, the prices seem more reasonable. The people are very friendly and speak multiple language, especially English, so getting around should not be an issue.

So we are still here and our next plans included hiking and using the amazing funicular, cog railway and gondola system. I will make additional entries for those once we have completed and recuperated from them a bit. Until then, stay tuned.

Braunfels, Germany – Altstadt and Castle

An hour’s drive by car north of Frankfurt above the Taunus mountains you will find a small, quaint and often overlooked little town called Braunfels.

Panorama of Braunfels below – Braunfels Castle – Braunfels, Germany

Braunfels

The town of Braunfels in the Lahm valley in Hessen and on the famous German Timber-Frame Tourist Road. All of the houses in the Altstadt are of this type construction and most are fairly old, sixteenth and seventeenth century.

The Altstadt lays to the east of the castle by the same name. Since it was built on the side of the same hill as the castle, some of the roads are pretty steep. Most are paved with cobbles and there are several signs, mostly if not exclusively in German, reminding visitors that the stones are uneven, slippery when wet, and the town and castle are not liable for any injuries, so watch you step when you visit.

The castle may be reached through the town via the Schloßstrasse, or on the other side of the hill via the Burgweg (this is where we parked).

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Kratzsteine

If you ever wondered why old towns such as Braunfels had these many corner stones, or Kratzsteine; the following sign explains it. The interesting thing here is, that although these are very common throughout older German cities and towns, you will not find many examples in Braunfels; making one wonder why someone posted a sign above an example of one, when there are so few throughout the town.

The above can be translated loosely in English as the following.

The medieval cities had very narrow alleys, which were only meant for pedestrians and mule drawn carts. When horse drawn carriages came, they had difficulties trying to make the turns without slowing down. The hubs of the wheels or the side of the wagons would damage the buildings. In order to prevent this damage and the high cost of repairs, the home owners had to come up with something. They decided on giant house stones, or Kratzsteine, which were partially buried on the corners of the house. This forced the driver to avoid and swing their carriages wide, so they didn’t risk their wheels getting damaged from these strategically placed corner stones.

Castle Braunfels

Christian Christmas Tradition

In Germany there is an old religious custom on the twelfth day of Christmas, or what is more properly known as the Epiphany. On the evening of or the day of Epiphany the front door of the building is chalked with the pattern “yy * C + M + B * YY”. The CMB is short for the Latin phrase Christus mansionem benedicat, or in English, May Christ bless this house. The YY are the year divided up appropriately.

Castle Innards

The courtyard of the castle is fairly large and surrounded by three walls and towers. The inside of the castle is typical for one of this period. The slideshow below finishes our tour of the castle and our visit to this very nice little town in Hessen.

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Mainz, Germany – Stadtbummel And Lunch

Though we have been in Mainz at least several times, it was before the beginning of this blog. Therefore, after a brief visit to the city to meet our friends and have a walk or stroll throughout the city (also known as a Stadtbummel), a quick mention here seemed almost required.

Day Trip To Mainz

This week we met our good and long time friends Karl Heinz and Isolde in Mainz for lunch and a customary Stadtbummel, if only to see some of the sights Patti has never seen.

To get there, we had to take the RMV S8 line from the Marktplatz in Offenbach to the Römisches Theater in Mainz. Unfortunately for us, there a typical issue which held the train up for forty-five minutes after we boarded and only went for two stops. Apparently something fell onto the tracks and tripped the signal on the line.

Mainzer Dom

Once the item was removed from the tracks, there were no further difficulties and we reached Mainz with plenty of time before lunch. We toured the Mainzer Dom and the Marktplatz, which are side by side, while we enjoyed the exceptional weather we were having for Germany.

Saint Ignatius Church

One of the more colorful churches inside is Saint Ignatius church. Though rather plain from outside the inside is definitely worth a look. The baroque style and paintings are impressive.

Saint Stephan’s Church

A must stop is Saint Stephan’s church, if only to see the famous church windows designed by Marc Chagall. Once inside, the eerie blue glow that occurs inside a bright sunny day is indeed a treat for the eyes.

Almost totally destroyed during World War II along with the rest of Mainz, the church was rebuilt in the late 1950s. Marc Chargall created a number of stained glass windows from 1978 and 1985 depicting scenes from the Bible.

Restaurants

Since we did not actually stay in the city we only had time with our friends to try the following restaurant for lunch.

Hof Ehrenfels

For lunch we ate at Hof Ehrenfels, a stone’s throw away from the Mainzer Dom on Greberstraße. It is actually a three star hotel that also has a very good restaurant with a garden. The four of us ate outside in garden and had Wiener Schnitzel.

Mainz, Germany – Deutschen Freunde

Diese Woche hatten wir die Gelegenheit unsere guten deutschen Freunde in Mainz zu treffen. Bevor wir unsere aktuelle Reise begannen, schickte ich meinem Freund Karl Heinz eine E-Mail, um alles zu planen. Und in den letzten Tagen haben wir uns gefreut, dass all unsere Planungen für uns geklappt haben.

Eine Kleine Reise Mit Dem Zug

Da wir eine Woche in Offenbach am Main waren, um unsere Töchter Ericka und ihren Mann Gabriel zu besuchen, mussten wir die DB S8 ab Offenbach Markplatz nehmen, die direkt zur Mainz Romisches Theater Haltestelle führt. Das bedeutete, dass wir von der Wohnung unserer Tochter in der Innenstadt laufen mussten, aber das kein Problem war, denn es dauert nur ungefahr fünfzehn Minuten.

Train Status S8

Nach fast zehn Minuten des Anfangs unserer Reise gab es eine Störung, einen Gegenstand leigt auf den Gleissen und das rotes Stopplicht angeschaltet war. Es dauert 43 Minuten bevor wir unsere Reise fortfahren könnten.

Restaurants

Für Mittagsessen wählten wir Hof Ehrenfels.

Hotel and Restaurant Hof Ehrenfels

Hof Ehrenfels

Dieser restaurant ist auch ein Drei-Stern-Hotel mit einem schönen Garten, den man draussen sitzen kann während man isst.

Auerbach, Germany – Auerbach Castle

Perched above the small hamlet of Auerbach, located immediately north of Bensheim, Germany is the castle of Auerbach. The Auerbach Castle is privately owned, maintained and is free to visit. Hiking and walking around its grounds and castle is allowed and encourage by the many structures that have been put in place to reach the upper parts of the castle.

Auerbach Castle

This is a perfect destination for a day trip, where one can go and enjoy the weather and the beautifully forested grounds of the castle. The castle itself is rather small and may be used to get an excellent view of the surrounding area and countryside beyond.

We were lucky enough to stop on our way to Frankfurt, and on a day of exceptional weather, where we were able to easily make out the nuclear power plant ten miles away and the hills beyond that, at what must be close to fifty miles away.

The castle was built sometime in the thirteenth century on what they called the old hill, or Urberg. It was probably partially maintained as a strategic fortification well into the seventeenth century, when it was no longer needed.

Over the next hundred years or so, it fell into disrepair and eventually the north tower collapsed. In the nineteenth century, it was repaired and partially rebuilt, the former bailey[1]A bailey is a protective walled courtyard, usually surrounded by a palisade or ditch outside. being converted into an Inn and eventually taking on its final form we see today. You can actually stay at the Inn even today.

Restaurants

There is only one restaurant on the grounds and a cafe. The cafe is situated outside and you may even bring your own food and enjoy a nice picnic on the tables that have been provided, assuming I would guess, if you buy a drink. The restaurant is inside, has a marvelous outside terrace with overlook and is fully staffed. The restaurant and grounds are capable of actually holding weddings, with the appropriate arrangements, of course. They also occasionally hold dinner theaters and a Rittermahl[2]In the U.S., this would be similar to our Medieval Times, where you get a knight fight and a dinner, while cheering your team on., complete with medieval games.

Auerbach Castle Restaurant

We ate lunch at the restaurant on the terrace, which of course has a commanding view of the countryside below.

They have a very good selection of typical German dishes and the service is also very good and timely. However, I am not sure how much English they speak, since we only spoke German to them and they never attempted to speak English. So if you are an English only speaker and plan to visit, be prepared, you may have to use the point and grunt method of ordering.

References

References
1 A bailey is a protective walled courtyard, usually surrounded by a palisade or ditch outside.
2 In the U.S., this would be similar to our Medieval Times, where you get a knight fight and a dinner, while cheering your team on.

Straßburg, France – Quaint Border Town

Basel-Mulhouse-Freiburg

We arrived by plane from Catania, Sicily in France’s EuroAirport, also known as the Basel-Mulhouse-Friebourg airport. You arrive via the air and exit in any one of three countries, Switzerland, Germany or France.

A word of caution though, exiting in France, you may find it difficult to get a taxi. We waited for a half an hour and ended up sharing a ride with a Frenchmen that explained to us that exiting via the France exit has the least amount of taxis. Of course, the airport has no information booth and you can’t of course change your mind once you are out.

The taxi drive was about five minutes and we were standing at the Saint-Louis la Chaussée train stop, having already purchased our tickets via phone. From there we went to Mulhouse and then on to Strasbourg, again using France’s regional train service, which you can essentially purchase any ticket in the future and still be able to use it for earlier trains.

Argantorati

Just barely in France on the border with Germany is the small quaint city of Straßburg, or Strasbourg to the French, and it actually goes by other names to some of the ethnic minorities. The name has German origins and meaning as ‘the town at the crossing of roads‘. It is also the place where the river Ill dumps into the mighty Rhine river.

The original settlement here before the fifth century CE, was known as the fortified silver settlement, a compound of the Celtic arganto for silver and rati for fortification. It was later latinized into Argentium and Argentina, or city of silver, where it is known in numerous texts. What follows is a slideshow of some of the many amazing sites you will see as you walk the city.

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Notre Dame

The town has a huge and wonderfully prominent cathedral called Notre Dame de Strasbourg, also known as the Straßburger Münster in German.

Its construction began in the late twelfth century and its impressive bell tower and spire were added more than 120 years after the start of construction, which I might add was never completed, since the addition of a second right tower and spire never came to fruition. The outside at night is spectacular, the interior and exterior lighting provide an excellent balance to show the real grandeur of this cathedral.

Of course, this is balanced well by the stained-glass windows illuminated by the sun in the early morning hours. The interior also houses an ecclesiastical astronomical clock which was built in the early 1570s.

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Get here early, usually before ten o’clock, otherwise the tour groups from the Viking cruises start to assemble and you will have little chance, the line often snakes all the way out the courtyard and around the block!

Palace Rohan

Across the river Ill from our hotel was the Rohan Palace, which houses several museums. We toured the Museum of Decorative Arts, just to get a view of the palace from inside.

We all found the decorative arts inside the museum a bit avant-guarde for our tastes, but typically French. The interior of the palace for the most part met expectations.

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Pont du Faisan

Built in 1888 this is a working example of an old hydraulic swing bridge. Below is a short video showing it in operation. First the two ends are closed for traffic, then the operator swings the bridge to allow boats through the gate. We were able to see this as a pedestrian and on the Strasbourg sightseeing tour boat. It is a very interesting piece of engineering and on a small scale, perhaps better than raising a bridge.

Ponts Couverts de Strasbourg

This Ponts Couverts is a set of thirteen century covered bridges and towers on the southwest part of the island. Initially a battlement and constructed of wood, the roofs were later removed and eventually the bridges were rebuilt in stone.

At least one of them was made into a prison and it was later told, though falsely, that executions were also carried out there, though there is no evidence of this happening.

Hotel Cour Du Corbeau

A very good hotel that is strategically located close to the old city center in Krutenau is the Hotel Cour Du Corbeau. It is situated just across the river Ill and two blocks away from the cathedral. Parking for cars is only a block away and many restaurants and cafes are within ten minutes walking distance.

Since we were arriving by train, we took the D Tram from the Central Station and got off at the Hospital stop. From there we were only a ten minute walk away.

The hotel is a smartly renovated and modernized version of an old inn that was used by workmen that worked at the tanneries and other places throughout the city. It maintains many of the old beams and architectural elements of the old building. However, it includes air-conditioning and many other modern amenities.

Although you may initially find their 27€ price for breakfast a bit steep, it is well worth it since they provide both hot and cold buffet items, as well as a wide selection of coffees.

Restaurants

Being a very busy tourist spot, Strasbourg has a plethora of restaurants, anything from traditional Alsatian food, to Chinese and other cosmopolitan cuisines. So you shouldn’t go hungry, even without a reservation.

Maison Des Tanneurs

The House of the Tanners restaurant was the furthest of all the restaurants from our hotel and took a good fifteen minute walk to reach.

Located in the far southwest corner of the island and near the Ponts Couverts it commands a nice view of the river Ill. So, if you want window side seat, reserve your seat early, we arrived at our reservation time and the sign was already posted on the menu outside – totally booked this evening.

La Piazza

We ate here on a first night and it is a decent restaurant with pretty good Italian food. We sat inside near the wood burning over, so the pizza they made for us was using the traditional method. The service was fine and our drinks met all of our expectations. However, the toilet left much to be desired, I suggest you become prepared to avoid a visit.

Au Tire Bouchon

Another excellent Alsatian restaurant choice is the Au Tire Bouchon. Though it does not have the view the House of Tanners provides, the food is on par with that establishment.

Vienna, Austria – Eine Gruft Und Mehr

Vienna Sights Above And Under

In Vienna, as with many older cities in Europe, there are interesting things to see not only above ground, but below as well. Today was a rainy day and we had to deal with as best we could, that could have meant museums, but everyone else had that idea. In attempt to continue to avoid crowded place, whenever possible, we decided on the offbeat.

Vienna – Vermählungsbrunnen

Schweizertor – The Swiss Gate

The swiss gate is the oldest gate or door and part of the Hofburg, dating back to the 1300s. It is part of the original square castle that included four turrets on each corner. It’s not much to see, but is a remarkable color red.

Vienna – Schweizertur – Swiss Gate

Die Ankeruhr

The Anker Clock is located on Hoher Markt, next to the Judengasse.

It chimes and performs a small show every noon time, otherwise all you will witness is an hourly chime, as follows.

Kapuzinergruft – Kaisergruft –  Habsburg Tomb

If you are at all interested in the Habsburgs, and perhaps where they might be buried, look no further than the Kapuzinergruft. Also called the Kaisergruft or Habsburg Tomb, it is located on Neuer Markt and next to the Kapuziner Kloster.

Vienna – Kapuzinergruft – Kaiser Gruft or Crypt – Tickets For Two

The gruft contains many of the families of the Habsburgs and Habsburg-Lothringen and includes a genealogy of the members who rest in this place. Some of the coffins also have amazing details, most of which have to do with wars[1]I sometime wonder when we are going to get over or need for that exercise in futility.

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Restaurants

Grand Hotel Wien – Breakfast Lounge

If you stay at the Grand Hotel Wien,  you should look into any combination package that offers breakfast. Unless you are an extremely light eater in the morning, you will not do much better outside. They have a hot and cold menu (buffet), and the portion size is well managed, so you won’t have to worry about walking around with a lot of extra weight.

Vienna – Grand Hotel Wien – Breakfast

Café Central

One of the oldest cafes in Vienna, the Café Central is located in the old Palais Ferstel building on the corner of Herren- and Strauchgasse. Famous personages like Freud and Trotsky have visited this establishment, though today the conversations today, one could say, are less political or analytical.

Vienna – Cafe Central – Building and entrance

We made reservations for lunch and commend anyone do that same. The line waiting to get in can be long and when it rains out, as it did today, you do not want to find yourself getting wet before sitting down after a twenty or so minute wait.

The food is good and traditional. I can commend a good red wine from Burgenland called Blaufränkish, which is served by the glass for around 5.50€. It is an excellent accompaniment for Wüstchens and Gulash soup. It is very busy, so service can be intermittent at times, so be patient.

References

References
1 I sometime wonder when we are going to get over or need for that exercise in futility